EBME Forums Forums Management Professional Issues Agenda For Change Changes to Agenda for Change

I think you may be over-stating the case a bit with talk of pariahs, leeches and such there, Bill.

But no doubt those of us on the Outside do sometimes get a bit wearied by the incessant bleating from those working within the NHS about their already generous pay and conditions.

And ... indeed, why should blokes expect an increment (annually, we assume) "just for turning up"?

Some of you guys might like to try the Real World for a while (which may well translate, as things stand these days, to being out of work) - then perhaps you'd realise how well off you actually are!

Actually, some of us on the Inside do sometimes get a bit wearied by the incessant bleating from those working outside the NHS about our already generous pay and conditions.

OK Mike, have it your way (you are, I suspect, in the majority on here, after all).

But here's a thought:- why not set up a Poll enquiring about the car that forum members drive (make, model ... and year)? Then perhaps we can settle the question about "who gets what" once and for all.

And ... if you wanted to be really thorough, you could also survey the value of their houses (flats, caravans ... whatever), including whether they are owned, mortgaged or rented.

I suppose we should also include questions about pensions, and "annual increments", as well, Mike.

You know, "Evidence Based"!

It could even serve as an indication to other recent posters about the true value of biomed salaries in the UK.

Means tested, that would be a novel idea?

Because it's part of the agreement we signed up to?
We are told that bailed-out bankers cannot be stripped of their bonuses because they are contractually guaranteed. I guess our contracts can somehow only be enforced in one direction.



I do have sympathy for most private sector workers, by the way. It can't be much fun going to work in the morning wondering whether your employer is going into administration today.

Why should they have an increment anyway, why shouldn't they be paid the top of the band (spot salaries) like what happens in the private sector?

This is a common misunderstanding in the private sector that the public sector gets a so called bonus just for turning up. What really happens is that a proportion of your salary is taken away because it's believed that you are not fully doing the role when you start and this gets drip fed back. It's believed that only when you reach the top of the band that your fully carrying out your role.

This is a result of a system that is based around nursing grades that require a certain amount of training and it's this which agenda for change is built around. Just think of the uproar in the private sector if instead of having a 12 month settling in period they had a eight year settling period on reduced pay!

Geoff, if you want a poll set up to find out what car EBME people drive - just do it yourself. Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys what car other people drive. Me, I drive a five and a half year old Renault Clio.

It was just a suggestion, Mike. I've got zero interest in the whole thing myself. Especially the bleating.

But ... in reply to Robert's original question:-


My answer is:- No. That's not how Private Sector jobs are "sold" to prospects. And I don't believe that many NHS techs "chop and change" (between NHS and outside) very often, do they? But it's all a bit academic anyway, I would have thought, as the market is not exactly flush with jobs right now. Surely NHS techs (especially) are hunkering down?

As usual, much of the talk we have seen on this thread of the "united we stand, brothers" type has been just Hot Air. Have you ever known many NHS techs vote with their feet?

And (before anyone starts to wonder) - yes, it happens quite a lot on the "outside" (and I have done it myself on a number of occasions). As does Redundancy, "letting go", End-of-Contract(s) ... and simple firing!

Unfortunately most of what you've just posted Geoff is perhaps 90's NHS rhetoric (could be 00's?) which has died a long time ago! There doesn't seem to be much difference between the NHS and the private sector these days. As for hunkering down everybody seems to be doing that these days.

Eh? You might need to expand (explain) that one a bit more, Chris.

And it's a bit difficult "hunkering down" when you can't find decent *work, you know.

* Or can't sell your widgets - or your services, or whatever.