EBME Forums Forums Free discussion Free discussion Advice for someone new to the job.

Got to agree with Barney there ... Rob must have had his "Avensys" (salesman) hat on yesterday (which is fair enough).

Spot on Rob ... I did owe a debt of gratitude to Sgt. WA for "showing me the way" during my early days; which kind of proves my point, I would have thought.

Yes ... foundation training by all means (and it reads to me that Den has already got a good deal under his belt), but I still hold the view that a little mentoring at first counts for a lot ... if only to encourage the fledgling biomed.

It is a technique that I have used myself, by the way (in "overseas" situations) - with Yours Truly acting as Mentor, I should add. It always worked; if only in giving me the opportunity to weigh up the guy (and see if - as happened once or twice - he was a Non-Starter). You know, to see if claims made on the guy's CV actually translated into practical reality.

As you know Rob, the Armed Forces system was (is still?) different from the NHS. We were supposed to be trained to be able to work by ourselves, without support, a long way from home. The "Med and Dent" support chain (such as it was - "back then", at least) was quite different from the well-established "green kit" support chain (levels of repair, Field Workshops and all the rest).

On a personal skills level, we had already proved ourselves in a couple of postings to field units, and so, therefore, were already a "known quantity".

Much has been made on here over the years about the infamous "Arborfield course". As many will know it was based on what we might now regard as "traditional lines":- an introduction to the next bit of kit, then before we knew it, out came the circuit diagram. It was OK at the time, but I (for one) became critical of it later (later that is, after encountering so many types of equipment not even mentioned on the course). I once submitted a "paper" about possible ways of improving the course, but as is (or at least was) the way of the army (back then, at least) I never heard anything more about it. But I probably earned myself a few "debit points" along the way for daring to challenge the Gods of Arborfield, no doubt.

Tech support in the NHS is a completely different kettle of fish - a Big Organisation, with lots of "management".

I'm afraid I strongly disagree with you both. I have engineers working here with a wide range of academic qualifications including MSc's, BSc Hons to City and guilds etc predominantly in electronic engineering. Yet each and every one has to complete our level three certificate in medical equipment technology prior to their entry into our medical equipment workshop. It's a no brainier, setting a base level of understanding and safety in medical device technology, not only for themselves but to their customers.

How qualified is old tom? Does he have relevant teaching qualifications to instruct someone like Den, how is this training monitored? Is this training registered? Who quality assures such training? When was old tom last trained? Is what he's teaching correct, safe even? I could go on but won't.

Such training is essential for any new starter regardless if he has A-Z in qualifications after his name. . It's not a sales pitch Geoff, I'm not fussed if a student attends Avensys, Eastwood Park or Even Mike G's lot or for that matter similar in-house training. But it is essential, it's standardised and sets a standard of best practice that is recognised. Otherwise, medical engineering departments will continue to be treated with disdain and seen as a disorganised group with a variety of skill sets with no approved standards or agreed understanding of medical equipment.

Let's talk about anatomy and physiology, patient monitoring equipment, radiography, diathermy, physiotherapy, anaesthetics, ventilators, relevant statutory ,and advisory documentation etc etc etc.

Who teach Den ? Ask yourself that question? Does this engineer have time? At what cost, surely he's being mis employed? What's he missing out during his delivery to Den? Need I go on.

Just stopped the lamp swinging, sandbags away, time for a beer....PS .Even your mentor Wally went through this training Geoff prior to mentoring you....the mind boggles.

I've already agreed that foundation training is a Good Idea!

But you're talking Ideal World there, Rob, if you don't mind me saying.

Some of us have laboured for many years in the Real World.

In my opinion, all of the points you mention are matters for the management where Den is being hired.

If, as you say, "such training is essential for any new starter ..." (and I don't disagree), then how come the NHS doesn't insist upon it? Or better still, organise and deliver it themselves?

PS: Wullie ... for a moment there I thought you were referring to your Nemesis!

Thanks for your interesting replies Guys!

For what it's worth, I am very keen to undertake any training that is on offer. To be honest though, rather than the theory side of things, I think practical training on the equipment I will be working on will be most useful for me.

I have completed HNC Electronic Engineering as well as a BEng (Hons) Degree in Manufacturing Systems, and there was hardly any practical hands-on work in either of those courses. As someone who has served a four-year mechanically biased apprenticeship (accompanied by four years day release College study) I found this a bit strange.

This was particularly true with the HNC in Electronics - I ended up very good at mathematical calculations, but couldn't solder to save my life! Although I have practiced soldering since then, this was a concern of mine which I mentioned during my interview and I was told that repairs at component level are quite rare these days (phew!)

I noted with interest a comment by Rob about Teaching Qualifications - I am actually a qualified Teacher in FE and I am leaving this job for the Med Eng position. I am wondering if there would be possible opportunities in the Future to become some kind of trainer on Medical Equipment? This is something I would be very interested in, but I fully realise that I will need to crawl before I can walk before I can run!

Anyway, thanks again Fellas!

Cheers - Den.

If, as you say, "such training is essential for any new starter ..." (and I don't disagree), then how come the NHS doesn't insist upon it? Or better still, organise and deliver it themselves? 

We do deliver it ourselves, and the training is locally tailored to the role undertaken. A combination of specific courses, on-the-job training, and mentoring is undertaken.
Generic theoretical training has its place, but this usually has to be supplemented with targeted training on the equipment that you want someone to work on, which differs from NHS Trust to Trust.

We utilise our training budgets carefully these days.
We ensure that manufacturers provide courses that include the appropriate elements of physiology, anatomy and technical knowledge relevant to the medical devices purchased.

The downside of processing a huge amount of information in such a short time as in the Eastwood Park model is that this knowledge is lost unless you have the opportunity to exercise it, use it or lose it?
Modular training packages pertinent to the role undertaken ticks the boxes here.

Hi Den

Welcome to the Medical Engineering fraternity, and I wish you all the luck in your new career. You have chosen a great vocation to work in, and rest assured there are training courses available to your department.

As you can see from this thread there are many different view points on training, each one has its own merit.

I personally recommend the Open College Network modules that Avensys offer, but I would as I work there. :-) They are nationally recognized and more importantly on the QCF. Being a teacher you will be o fay with the terminology.

We are always exploring new and diverse ways of delivering medical equipment training, so by all means get in touch with me and you could easily be delivering training for us on a part time basis in the future.

Irrespective of the rhetoric in this thread, we are all passionate in what we do and are always open to offer you our advice.

Welcome again to our great team of Bio-Medical Engineers.

Regards

Nigel

Thanks for the encouragement Nigel,

I am a complete novice at present, but I'd like to think that I'm a quick learner. Even so though, I'm sure it will be a while before I am competent enough to even think about training anyone else.

I know my new manager has a couple of courses lined up for me already, and I can't wait to get stuck in!

Thanks again,

Cheers - Den

Hi all, I'm just revisiting your replies before I start the new job tomorrow! My nerves are jangling a bit, and I'm hoping I will cope ok. I've taken some advice given here and done some research on how the body works, and how some of the equipment operates. I've learned a fair bit in a few weeks, I reckon! I am now familiar with some of the lingo used, and know things like the difference between veins and arteries, the different parts of the Heart and stuff like that. The way things like oxygen saturation in blood is measured by using red and infrared light is interesting, and reminds me a bit of my experience with non-contact measurement in industry, which also used light to measure dimensions accurately. Also I have read about how breathing can be monitored by recognising thoracic impedance as breath - I can kind of relate to these things from what I have seen in other jobs. I've also got a new found admiration for what a brilliant and complex piece of kit the human body is, that's for sure! I'm going to start looking after myself a bit more, and I'm certainly glad I stopped smoking a few years ago!

Anyway, thanks again for your advice, and I'm sure once I get going I'll be a regular on here with loads of questions!

Best Regards - Den.

Good Luck, Den. I hope it all goes well.

Yes; it is often useful to think of the body as a machine ... the heart as a pump, and so forth.

It can also sometimes be useful to consider the hospital as a system!