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the hospital that i work in maybe going to a new PFI project build and the EME dept. could be taken over by an external company, obviously this has happen else where could anybody give me any feedback how it has effected their dept.

Don't just assume that it will happen - I know of (and have heard about) Trusts who've had a PFI build but excluded the EBME / Medical Physics department from the deal because they wanted to keep the service in-house.

If you have a good relationship with the senior clinical people, particularly the consultants, start raising the issue with them and try and get them on your side. If they see the change as "losing" your department, they'll support your case for staying in the Trust.

What Roy's referring to is "Soft" and "Hard" PFI. Where departments such as Medical Physics equipment maintenance and EBME are generally considered "Hard" - more consideration has to be taken regarding the consequences of outsourcing because of the associated risks - financial and otherwise. "Soft" services such as catering and housekeeping, for example, may not need as much consideration when deciding whether to PFI or not. What Roy says is probably true but we were outsourced a couple of years ago even though we were part of a "Medical Physics" department.

...just to give a pot a bit of a stir...

All this PFI stuff is new to me, but from what I've seen so far, there seem to be obvious benefits in being provided with new workshops, new equipment for the hospital etc. I observe also that the PFI biomed contractors seem to be taking on existing EBME staff (of course, as there is not a bottomless pit of biomeds just waiting around to be picked-up).

But maybe it's all a bit too "commercial" and "contractual" for some of the old sweats out there. Some of us may value our freedom to act as we please, eh?

Obviously, all this glitter has to be paid for somehow, and we can wonder if the money could not have been used more effectively. After all, some of it must be taken as profits by the companies concerned. I understand that these PFI arrangements last for 30 years! That's a long time. Should the NHS be a "non-profit" organisation?

And what about patient outcomes? Is the patient getting a better deal, or not? Are we seeing the creation of a two (...three?) speed NHS?

Lastly, are any of the guys out there willing to "put their money where their mouths" are and set up in competition with the present well-known companies?

Meanwhile, Keep the Faith!

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Long Live Low Life

What are the pay and conditions like for those of you that have been PFI'd?

Deep in thought
Mark

Wayne

The Estate function of the trust I work for went PFI in 1998, up until then we were part of the Estates Department. We didn`t go with the newly privatised Estates department I believe for a number of reasons, mainly to do with ownership, management and potential litigation risk of EBME kit.
We found one of the early disadvantages of working with a PFI estates was lack of communication between the Trust and the PFI. When the estates was a trust function they managed a fair bit of the medical gases gear, flowmeters, suction units, etc. Now they are just concerned with services "up to the wall" as a consequence we`ve found our workload has increased significantly over a number of years as we`re the natural Department to take on the management of such equipment (no we haven`t had extra resourcing - this is the NHS remember).
Our department generally has a good relationship with the PFI, as most of the staff are the old ex estates bods.
Our trust has two main hospitals here and in Whitehaven, the Estates at Whitehaven is still a trust function, and I would say the pay and certainly the work conditions of the Whitehaven estates is slighlty better, purely a personal observation of course.