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Oh dear, I have struck a nerve hav'nt I, still it goes to prove a point.. There are those that are wise and those that are not. The fee aspect of registration is important in this discussion as it is only part of the costs involved at this point and it will become an escalator with no doubt. getting the thread back on course, I was'nt aware that it had actually moved off. An open discussion should contain the warts and all as long as the core of the issue is still there and there was nothing that I posted which deviated from that core point on this free discussion in my opinion. As for the political aspect and keeping it out of the discussion, I suggest Mr RJL does his homework (in depth) and possibly reads my comments again before he shoots his mouth off also. No union helped me get my job.... I got it on my own merits and hey the union does not pay the registration fees for me does it. To assume that I have not paid my dues during my working life is an insult from RJL to which he should be ashamed of himself for turning this healthy forum into his own personal soapbox. I note that he RJL has a lot to say but "garbage in, is garbage out" comes easily to mind.

Sounds like you just want to stir things up. I've no interest in no-marks Tim. This forum is healthy because individuals like myself discuss the issues and don't prescribe to politically or racially motivated insults, not directly aimed at individuals anyhow. If the forum would prefer me not to post then why not have a poll to see if they'd rather listen to your politically biased slurs and personal insults?

For you, Geoff, there is no benefit - you're already fully qualified by prior relevant training and experience as a medical engineer but you don't work in the NHS (where I still believe the NHS is what VRCT & HPC regulation is intended to target, predominantly, right or wrong). If you're not interested in VRCT and not involved on a voluntary basis then you're not getting anything from it anyhow, never will, and it has cost you nothing.

If you take into account the internal politics and history, then you would see that it's a way to get onto the HPC register that is likely to be setup for those with protected titles, i.e. regulated professions, working in healthcare.

If you looked at other recently regulated professions in the NHS the benefits are that recognised training schemes and education is being setup, where they didn't exist before or had been discontinued, to meet the demand. They will never be setup nationally by NHS employers or organisations by any other means, in my opinion, and the dearth of individuals with recognised training, skills and experience in medical engineering would continue.

The current NHS organisation does not support training of professions that are not regulated as far as I can tell. The VRCT and HPC is the price to be paid for a career structure and hopefully more resources for training & development, in my opinion.

Full-time on the job training in medical engineering (run by the hospital physicists, nationally, for years, as it happens) was shut down in the 80's and ignored by employers who wanted "bums on seats" at the lowest cost - leading to occupations that were employing older and older staff who were reasonably well trained and qualified and others coming in who had to be supported - with lesser and non relevant qualified coming into the professions with little hope of a decent career path. When they were trained the medical industry usually poached trained technicians by offering a better salary.

If the NHS were setup to offer decent salaries for qualified professionals, employed in protected roles, my view we would not have had this sort of situation. Currently this is why we have problems with a lack of skills in the workforce and problems recruiting at senior levels.

The problem will get worse, especially in the NHS, because of the new AFC banding structure requiring practitioners to be "fully qualified" in order to earn a reasonable living, commensurate with their qualifications, i.e. Band 6 (up to ~£32K). This means that anyone trying to get in without being fully qualified according to AFC/HPC will be forced onto lower salaries commensurate with their "lower qualifications", irrespective of prior non-relevant experience, (<<32K).

VRCT has nothing to do with pay scales but being fully qualified is a benchmark that the employers will continue to use whether regulation is with us or not. Because there's no other benchmark VRCT is becoming a benchmark for qualifications, skills, training and experience - voluntarily supported by thousands of peers in medical engineering.

Without future regulation then the jobs will continue to be progressvely "dumbed-down", salaries will continue to be be eroded and lower paid entrants relatively untrained - this is Ok for short term financially biased agendas of estates and medical physics departments but it's not sustainable nationally.

Status, relative to occupations we have been aligned will will erode, making the problem worse. We end up with no career structure since we excude oursleves from the NHS "professional" system.

At least recognised routes into the job will bring qualified people in at appropriate grades, allow them to be properly trained in medical engineering and then allow them to progress.

The benefits of regulation (which is where VRCT is heading) are that it will push the requirements to setup the foundations to promote training schemes leading to a career in medical engineering; within the NHS at least. Regulation will prevent us being marginalised even furthers and it will allow those willing to take on the specialist training to get onto the register to progress.

Regulation is coming anyhow because of VRCT - thousands have expressed their interest in being regulated (not all will e given protected roles by their employer I suspect). But it makes sense to get involved if you want to work in a profession in the NHS rather then just a job that's be driven down and down.

AFC is already here in the NHS, whether we like it or not, so the restructuring of the NHS is already affecting the grades within medical engineering - driving them down, not up, since the required skills aren't out there in the workplace to fill higher grades. If they do get filled then the applicants may not be the ideal.

It's not about the potential gains from VRCT/HPC it's what we stand to lose if we're not regulated. I'm talking gains to the profession and the "professional" wellbeing of the majority in the longterm and, as usual, there are individuals thinking only of themselves in the short term.

"racially motivated" Richard? now i've heard it all!
If anything it's your own rantings that appear personal/political etc. ("resistance is futile" springs to mind)
It appears you are unable to accept the validity of anybody's comments that disagree with your own ideals. I have noted in previous posts your constant referral to ex Avionics Techs for example of which i am one, but i haven't complained or discredited your comments. You now appear to be doing that yourself, very efficiently and making unfounded assumptions of posters, therefore i will no longer reply to the disections of mine and others posts by yourself as they have no validity. I regret that this thread appears to have degenerated into an interpersonal slanging match, however there is as always one common denominator, yes, you bring it on yourself. END.
Now, back to the core issue please.

"The current NHS organisation does not support training of professions that are not regulated as far as I can tell. The VRCT and HPC is the price to be paid for a career structure, in my opinion" quote from Mr Ling

Yes they do! - at MSC Clinical Engineering in Cardiff several of the NHS employed students have recieved funding from the NHS - they ones that didn't were the MOD students.

On the VRCT - Why is it still voluntary? The VRCT in my view is like putting lipstick on a Pig - ITS STILL A PIG!

Darth Welder aka Rab C ECE

So what I'm saying will be benefits of VRCT and regulation are actually happening in practice - fantastic - that proves my argument.

That is the Welsh NHS then. As I said it's aimed primarily at the NHS so I'm not surprised what you say about funding and I disagree that MOD entrants shouldn't be funded in the same way - that's a shame.

Saying that I paid 75% of my MSc in Biomedical Engineering and all of my degree whilst in the NHS, plus a propotion (50% I think)of my HNC whilst in the NHS. This means that things ae changing for the better then.

It's an example, Topper, if you look at the context of the posts. I've also used the example of non-experienced graduate electronics engineers if you actually read that post - deliberately in fact so that it was balanced.

Are you going to tell me that day-one an ex-avionics engineer or graduate is going to be employed as a fully qualified medical engineer in the NHS at Band 6? Take whatever you like out of context but if you do reference it to the post, please.

From my perspective individuals have assumed political, financial assumptins about my motives, and I am expected to accept that. When I repsond in the same manner then I am criticised again. I post facts not insults, I argue when I disagree.

Political and Racially motivated insults? You do like bandying words around, are you are having a bad day? Are you trying to represent the Professional face of being registered RJL, if so I am glad to know what you appear to look like... and it is not like the face of the Technologists I work with. As you and others will be aware all of the insults have come from you and you reap what you sow. getting back to the thread Ah Hum so how much will this registration cost us in the long run and how deep are your pockets

What insults, Tim, based upon what you've posted? Aimed at you personally, which ones?



You mean like this? I am nobody's crony and VRCT is not a tax. You posted it.



You mean like this? Who's stopped you arguing or expressing your views? You posted it.



You mean this one? Members ARE the union. You posted it.



You mean this one? You posted it.



You mean like this one? You posted it.


You mean like this one? You posted it.



Sounds like bullying to me......you posted it.

No, absolutely not - I don't represent VRCT professionally, these are personal views based upon working in this job for over 20 years. I'm posting on my own time and trying to stand up to a bully.

In fact YOU, TIM, posted all of these comments and, in fact, YOU are the person who started posting nonsense like this. He's still not come up with any arguments relating to the VRCT thread only insults all the way!

Hi bcarlisle,



I''ve given my reasons why I think it's for "the profession" and me - it's obviously damaging for me personally and probably professionally to take the time to do that but I'm willing to take the flak.

Why do you think it's not for you?