EBME Forums Forums Free discussion Free discussion Current Vacancies - Are You Having A Laugh?

All the relevant information is freely available in the public domain, as Chris states.

For those of you, who require a greater understanding of NHS Job Evaluation; please feel free to use the following link:

http://www.nhsemployers.org/Aboutus/Publ...ird_edition.pdf

Personal specs will vary from post to post, but each post has a job description with essential and desirable criteria to be filled. Advancement within grade is dependant upon achieving compliance with individual KSF's (Key Skills Framework) and local pay progression policies.
Referred to as "BIPP" Behavioural Incremental Progression Policy or may be known under other guises, advancement within grade is aligned to sickness absence and attendance at mandatory training.

Will folk who don't "behave" get deductions?

Not deductions, but advancement is blocked.
Same as private sector, difficult to reduce wage. Though the "Darkside" Manager can withhold bonus or productivity payments, I suppose.
In an ideal world we should take supportive measure's, not punitive, but nothing concentrates the mind more fully than the current NHS HR guidance.

NHS, poor short term sickness absence invokes monitoring, and "BIPP"
Long term sickness absence eventually invokes termination of employ.

Here are a couple of useful quotes from the Dark Side Managers' Handbook:-

1) "My Way, or the Highway"!
2) "If you don't like it, get yer coat"!
3) "Just get on with it"!

Attitudes and perceptions change. For instance, I always used to support free University education for the Brightest (regardless of background). That is, education of the most able paid for by us plebs, the taxpayers. But now that 50% of the undeserved get to go* to University, I've changed my mind, especially after yesterdays disgraceful "demonstrations".

When all is said and done, Public Sector staff are paid out of the Public Purse. That is, by the taxpayer. Meanwhile, those of us on the outside are paid out of customer revenues. In short, if we continue to "under perform", we are out on our arses, simply because the business will ultimately go under.

Meanwhile, it seems that the NHS can "under perform" all it likes, whilst "lessons will be learned". That's it. Who's "having a laugh" there, then?

One way to look at "pay banding" is to compare Pay Slips. When I look at my monthly deductions for income tax, frankly I resent every penny.

* To be "trained" in useful skills such as the Performing Arts and Media Studies (whatever they are).

That’s not strictly true though, is it Geoff?

Those outside who are funded by Customer revenues? Remember Geoff if you are doing work for the NHS as a contractor (or service provider), your payment or funding comes from the taxpayer. And, some of the rip-off Contractor or OEM prices are ultimately charged to the public purse. So, some NHS costs can be contributed to these charges, which in some cases are akin to holding this public service to ransom.

NHS Biomeds don’t just provide a "quick response service". They also provide a "Best Value Service", benchmarking and competitive tendering participation ensure that.

The NHS is a publicly accountable body (local community and staff are represented at Board level as stakeholders). Private Sector Companies may only be accountable to their shareholders - prime motivation and direction is profit driven.

When the Private Sector Companies publish their annual accounts they are not freely available in the public domain. Any NHS spending over £25k is available for public scrutiny.

As far as the NHS is accountable for public monies? Both local audit and independent assurance is sought as part of Standing Financial Insructions.

I think that you will find that the Managers and senior staff, of underperforming NHS Trusts get the big "E" (same as outside).

I could go on about the vast profits already made out of the NHS by Private Finance Initiatives, as a taxpayer yourself, you would more profitably direct your scrutiny not just to the NHS, but to the funding sources tapped by the current and previous governments, and the on-costs to you (and me), the tax payer.

I'm not.

But I'll let matters rest there, Sean. Chains have been yanked for today. Job done!

Well that's a first Geoff; restraint is not a trait I would normally associate with you.

(But perhaps my insertion of a comma after "Remember Geoff”, may have provided more clarity, mate). Not You as an individual, but some in the Private Sector who provides services to the NHS.

In the spirit of detente, I agree some things are better left unsaid. Notwithstanding, you got to love the fencing!
Where would we be without allowing a frank exchange of viewpoints? (North Korea, probably)

Don’t we all have to pay taxes, if we earn sufficient?

In my experience the description of a Darkside Manager accurately describes anyone wishing to remain on the Darkside. In a previous role as a Trade Union official I took delight in ruining the careers of many of them, but sadly not all. They all to a man always thought it most unfair when in turn their higher managers sacrificed them for an agreement, profit rules OK.

As for students, of course they should protest - they have been lied to by the politicians, the same lot that have lied about accrued pensions rights (private and public).

Who’s responsible? Not the students surely, they have been spoon fed their entitlements to further education. There is now absolutely no brakes on the system, “It is my right to go to Uni” they earnestly protest. Years ago standards were set and yes, it was your right to go for free, once you had reached the standard. Now all the Schools and Colleges boast about 98.35% pass rates, I’d like to meet some of the young students that actually did fail!

Let’s face it decades ago most failed, (brutal?), (harsh but fair, I’d argue) but it set standards. Now all students pass, the able and the useless, so what does it all mean? I’m not against education; it is one of the most important aspects of our life, too precious to be wasted. It should be about learning and reaching set standards not collecting meaningless pieces of fancy decorated sheets of paper.

When teaching at a highly regarded college, many of the students were wasters but I was instructed (by one of those Darkside Managers!) not to kick them out, just pass them, since the college would not receive the funding if students left the course before completion. Others doing (Excel) HNC courses never sat an exam, it’s all modular course work now, easily poached from previous students’ work or the internet, needless to say they all passed. As for City & Guilds, most is now all tick a box from 5 answers, 3 of which an idiot could rule out, so now you are left with 2 to choice from. As the pass was 50% right, they all again passed. Sadly these were our future electricians, many of which I would not trust to wire a chicken run! As for university education, I went to the University of Bath, a fine technology university, but alas not as a student but on the building site to wire the place out. In those days 7% went to university, yes the elite, and I was also happy to pay my taxes for them, with the belief that the country would prosper from their endeavours. BUT in those days they weren’t all taking degrees in surfboard management etc..

Unfortunately there are still the able students, industrious in their endeavours, but now pressurised to go to ‘Uni’ to get a degree to set themselves apart from the ‘easy pass brigade’ and so it goes on, standards have sadly fallen.

Even children now burst into tears if they don’t win a race or are beaten at cards, they all have to win. Real life is not like that, perhaps things were a little harsh when I was at school (failed 11+, left as a teenager with no GCEs) but you could go to night school, and if your employer thought you were worth it get day release to a technical college and pass exams after you worked hard to reach the standards. In those days exams were [censored] or bust, but if you gained the ticket at least an employer had confidence that you met a prescribed standard.

Bring back standards and let students keep trying until they reach them, then perhaps we might see standards improve in their behaviour as well. If they can’t meet the standards, then get a job. Education is now a joke controlled by the liberal social engineers, it allows thousands of foreign students to enter the country and enrol on full time courses (specially devised so in reality they only need to attend 1 or at most 2 days a week). This enables them to immediately find employment in the many thousands of jobs our super educated can’t find or won’t do.


Excuse the rant, but I am still shocked to the core from watching TV last night witnessing what looked like some demonstrators burning wreaths previously placed at the Whitehall Cenotaph. If this is what our education system now turns out then there can be absolutely NO standards and that my friends is the problem with our dear country.

It seems that we are in agreement after all, then, Barney.

Apart from the bit about the Dark Side that is. There's no Trade Union here, Mate.